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The Topper Site
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Beagle



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. I don't know where you're finding those pics Charlie, but I would love to see this one, after watching it slowly emerge for a week. Very Happy
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Beagle



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
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Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing has come to mind about my week at Topper. Among the various experts that Al Goodyear has invited to Topper, he had a group of geologists there who examined the entire site. They were able to determine that no earthquake, volcano, or other geologic event has disrupted the sediment layers in something like 100,000 yrs.

This was done to answer the inevitable question about the artifacts being in situ.
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Charlie Hatchett



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 898
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beagle wrote:
Great. I don't know where you're finding those pics Charlie, but I would love to see this one, after watching it slowly emerge for a week. Very Happy


Here you go, Beags:





Is there anyone you can e-mail to get an image of this piece after it was recovered?
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Beagle



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is there anyone you can e-mail to get an image of this piece after it was recovered?


I've got a number of email contacts Charlie, but artifacts like this one go straight to the lab for lithic analysis, and are unavailable for public viewing until someone (I presume Al) allows pics to be posted. Tom or Carey wouldn't have access.

I thought maybe you had found a pic. It'll be out eventually though. I need to run a google image search for Topper artifacts and bring myself up to date.

Later.
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Charlie Hatchett



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I need to run a google image search for Topper artifacts and bring myself up to date.


I'll do the same, Beags. I haven't scanned the Internet lately to see if there are new Topper artifacts posted.
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Beagle



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nationworld/story/173177.html

Quote:
COLUMBIA, S.C. – For the second time in less than a decade, a South Carolina river bluff holds evidence pointing to a theory with history-rewriting potential.
Microscopic soil particles from the Topper site near Allendale might hold a tiny key to a big theory: that comet-caused explosions wiped out the mammoths and mastodons, prompted the last ice age and decimated the first human culture in North America about 12,900 years ago.

The comet theory first began generating a buzz at an international meeting of geophysicists in Mexico in May. The findings were published this month in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. They’re about to go mainstream, with a National Geographic Channel segment today. The History Channel will film for a future show at Topper this week.



Hello folks, here's a new article about Topper and the Comet theory. Very Happy
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Charlie Hatchett



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool stuff, Beags. Cool
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DavidCampbell
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Joined: 01 Jun 2003
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Location: Occupied Republic of Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have enough PreClovis artifacts been recovered from Topper yet to define a distinct typology? That's the gripe I always hear from the diehard Clovis Firsters, that there are no consistent/coherent assemblages in any of the PreClovis material. I consider that a crock myself since Calico alone produces assemblages that are entirely consistent enough to rate a typology of their own. At least as much as Oldowan.
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Charlie Hatchett



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far it seems like a blade/ flake and core tool industry. Confused
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Ancient Wisdom Publishing



Joined: 22 Apr 2009
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Location: Springtown Pennyslvania

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: Topper Update Reply with quote

I posted this Topper update recently at our website - especially relating to the new documentary program Time Team America. It is sad that Dr. Goodyear has to endure this type of trite examination to gain exposure and funding for his work. Some of the work I just reviewed by your members here at anarchaeology was more in depth.

From my post at healourworld.org:

Proof in the pudding:

I searched our forum today for Clovis. One of our members posted Dr. Goodyear's Topper finds here in our forum a year ago. In response to the Topper artifacts, one of our members asked "My question is how long before this is "forgotten"?

In hindsight your answser was right on. You wrote:

"In my debates with people working the site or archaeologists I have seen what is likely going to happen here. It is the same thing in other places except that study continues to support my work at this site.

The funding emphasizes the recent eras, does not integrate the earlier researched dates, and tries to act as if science is discovering rather than destroying truth.

Debates then occur and parties will be brought to the table just as was the case with the Paraiba Stones or Bat Creek Nine. Then average people will conclude there is no certainty because of the anomalous nature of the find and the differences of opinion from so-called experts (all paid for).

I have earlier artifacts and a continuous proof of travel to the Americas - integrated up to the present. It exposes the same people in monopolistic endeavours throughout all varied approaches to managing this world." (quoting Robert Bruce Baird)

http://healourworldnow.org/how/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,26/topic,163.0/



The proof is in the new archeology program on PBS called Time Team America. A multidisciplinary team descends on contraversial archy sites for three days with a mobile field lab to conduct tests with new technology. I have only seen one episode - Range Creek in Utah. I didn't know they did an episode on Topper. I watched it today online.

I find these episodes excruciatingly dumbed down for a general audiance (more proof in the pudding). This is a brand new episode right from the Topper site, and in their conclusion this is exactly what took place:

"Debates then occur and parties will be brought to the table just as was the case with the Paraiba Stones or Bat Creek Nine. Then average people will conclude there is no certainty because of the anomalous nature of the find and the differences of opinion from so-called experts (all paid for)."

Video of the entire episode:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1176527479/program/1100231536

Sad that Dr. Goodyear has to grasp at these straws for recognition and funding to further his work.


Article: Time Team America: The Topper Site
Monday July 13, 2009

http://archaeology.about.com/b/2009/07/13/time-team-america-the-topper-site.htm

***********************************

The 2009 Allendale Paleoamerican Expedition visited Topper this year:

The 2009 Expedition will concentrate on the Clovis occupation on the hillside and the pre-Clovis excavation will again focus on the deeper Pleistocene terrace deposits down to the 50,000 year level. Also, in conjuction with SCIAA's underwater team, the dredging operation at the Big Pine Tree site will continue during weeks 1 and 2.

http://www.allendale-expedition.net/


Another Preclovis site - Cactus Hill in Virginia (including the funding trail). Where is Cactus Hill now? What conclusions have been drawn?

http://www.jrwcc.com/nrs/index.html

http://www.jrwcc.com/nrs/newsletter.html
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DavidCampbell
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Joined: 01 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topper actually has more in common with McNeish's Pendejo Cave which also has a 50,000 date and was subjected to denial almost immediately. McNeish's assistants finally got the book published a few years ago by University of New Mexico Press. It was pretty pricey but Allan Shumaker, another member here got a copy and posted photos from it of the worked bone artifacts. McNeish also had handprints in clay that that had hardened and hair IIRC. McNeish was among those fly by the seat of your pants archaeologists who had made other significant discoveries particularly in the origin of corn in Mexico which were the only reasons he was not relegated to the same rogues gallery by the mainstream that Carter, and McIntyre and others have been. Their crimes being mostly finding something uncomfortably older than 15,000 BCE. Goodyear was the object of smears attacking his methodology from the very start because this tactic had worked so well with the aforementioned archaeologists. Mike Collins (Gault Clovis Site, Wilson-Leonard) immediately sprang to Goodyear's defense despite his own opinion that Goodyear was misinterpreting starch fractures and natural fire carbon for cultural artifacts (same as he did with Niede Guidon's site in Brazil, actually). Collins said Goodyear's excavation was beyond reproach.
It is par for the course that even archaeologists with good reputation and their own controversial sites will find grave fault with their peers. Whether this is rigourous peer review or simply turf defence depends upon your point of view. As far as I know, it's been that way from the beginning; certainly well into the 19ith century.
The Bat Creek Stone and Paraiba Inscription are of a very different, though related, order of contention. And as I have stated elsewhere, Diffusionist issues have far more to do with socio-political-religious mindwars than archaeology, albeit artifacts form an iconic focus in those struggles. Struggles in which I endeavor to minimalize my involvement. The blanket dismissal of mainstream science opposing views is a conditioned response carefully cultivated by certain factions which usually has the desired boomerang effect.
Fortunately, I do not have the channels upon which these popular science entertainments appear. Reliable sources inform me that they go through several bleach and spin cycles before they are aired, so I don't think I've missed a great deal. Wink
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Ancient Wisdom Publishing



Joined: 22 Apr 2009
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Location: Springtown Pennyslvania

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should mention for those that did not see the program, that Dr. Goodyear appeared thoughout the documentary - of course.

That's what I meant when I said it was sad that he has to be a player in these dumbed down documentaries to get recognition and support for his research. The team brought new scanning technology to the site and I can only imagine that it was his hope the techonology would reveal a new breakthrough. But you can see by my review the results had just the opposite effect, for the masses. (well, it is really the masses who are at fault - for not studying - but this is known and part of the plan).
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DavidCampbell
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It bears mention that Richard Firestone, author of "The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophe" visited Topper and found substantiation in the black mat layer and microspherules for his theory of a Tunguska type cometary event at the end of the Pleistocene. Goodyear was enthusiatic about what Firestone observed and predicted there. If Topper was not controversial enough, it was after Firestone's inclusion in his book. Firestone's theories came under heavy fire immediately after he published a preliminary article in 1998. He was forced to modify that original hypothesis and seek out much more evidence before he published his book. Ironically, he found some support from C. Vance Haynes' Arizona site. Haynes had long been the acknowledged godfather of the Clovis First advocates. Firestone again came under heavy criticism from all disciplines and seemed fated to languish in the dustbin of discredited theories. However, Kennett's discovery of nanodiamonds in late Pleistocene context, gave a new lease on life to Firestone's cosmic event. Tying that to the megafaunal extinctions and the demise of Clovis has been less successful but remains a point of heated debate even now.
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