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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I'm just shakin' my head. |
Well, at least we agree it's man made...I think some are missing a bigger
picture. I contend these ancient type "cores" (like Al's above and some of my
cores) are actually 3D rock sculptures. _________________ Charlie Hatchett
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DavidCampbell Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 436 Location: Occupied Republic of Texas
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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While both are cores from the reduction of a nodule to produce usable flakes and blades, that's where I would leave the comparison when communicating with the likes of Al Goodyear, if I anticipated a serious response. While the artist residing in the right side of my brain can readily discern the saurid imagery on the stones and holistically relate them to the Ica Stones, the left side which has thus far kept me out of extra longsleeved jackets and the institution at Terrell, Texas, would not mention such apperceptions to those whose credence I might desire in the future. _________________ David Campbell
"The going's getting weird, so I'm turning pro." |
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | While both are cores from the reduction of a nodule to produce usable flakes and blades, that's where I would leave the comparison when communicating with the likes of Al Goodyear, if I anticipated a serious response. While the artist residing in the right side of my brain can readily discern the saurid imagery on the stones and holistically relate them to the Ica Stones, the left side which has thus far kept me out of extra longsleeved jackets and the institution at Terrell, Texas, would not mention such apperceptions to those whose credence I might desire in the future. |
My answer is: If I feel that it's really true, why not bring it up.
Even if he doesn't respond, it may get him to thinking...
That core is a dead ringer for a 3D bird sculpture. The symmetry (sorry
Frank...going right brain on ya') on all three dimensions is amazing!
And it's greater than 50,000 years old. It also has the iron staining and
heavy carbonate coating overlying worked rock. Alot of parallels
separated by many miles...
Through researching Old World lithics, I've found amazing similarities
between the "baboon head" sculptures, and what I'm calling bird
sculptures:
http://www.originsnet.org/oldowangallery1/pages/d)anvbabhdflkn.htm
Note the overall morphology, and then note the oval eye.
Here's a couple local examples:
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/afw207.jpg
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/afw206a.jpg
Note the heavy iron and carbon staining. There's a whole secure stratum
of this stuff. It rests on a 10-18' of very fine clay/ silt. The iron/carbon
stained chert nodule stratum is very narrow...maybe10-12". The stratum
is disected by the creek, but continues on both sides throughout the
entire exposed alluvium. My hypothesis is these iron/carbon stained chert
nodules were casts for metal pourings, orginally located just upstream
around the furnace area. When the major alluvial event that swept all the
gravel from the hill country downstream, and deposited the local gravel
bar, initiated, it swept the subject iron/carbon stained chert nodules
downstream and deposited them on the silty/clay shoreline. The gravel
followed, and was deposited on top of these nodules and underlying
silt/clay strata.
This alluvial event is recorded by Collin's and crew upstream as sometime
prior to 15,700 B.P. (correlation with local bog data). The time period prior
to the major alluvial event is described as one of extended drought. I
don't see this being The Wisconsin Period, characterized as abnormally
wet and cool locally.
I think we have to back up to The Sangamon Interglacial: ca. 125,000
B.P. to get an extended drought. From 15,700 B.P. back until the end of
The Sangamon Interglacial is well documented to have been very wet and
cool locally.
Now tell me, does any of this sound any less crazy than these ancient
inhabitants carving 3D sculptures? _________________ Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
http://forum.preclovis.com/
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effigy
Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 25
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Quote: | that's where I would leave the comparison when communicating with the likes of Al Goodyear, if I anticipated a serious response |
Charlie, it is your choice to express your many interesting opinions
Just keep in mind bro, that the science of archaeology can be particularly brutal. I'll shut on this one now.
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Only a suggestion: Your posts might be easier to read if they were formatted to take up less space.
Best,
Jeff |
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DavidCampbell Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 436 Location: Occupied Republic of Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Bob Skiles posted the following artifact for identification on the main TAS list; I thought of Charlie immediately when I saw it.
"The attached photos illustrate a groundstone item found on the surface within or near a prehistoric terrace site near the Russell Fork of the San Gabriel River in eastern Burnet County. Artifacts date the site to Middle (a Nolan/Travis or two) to Late (a fair amount of what you'd expect) Archaic with possibly a bit of Late Prehistoric (I've only seen a couple of photos). The material is a stream rolled cobble, that looks like chert, but the ground "bit" end has a visible crystalline structure. There appears to be wear extending past the bevel, but this may be differential weathering. It is not highly polished, but is very smooth. The ventral face is slightly "oranger" in appearance, especially near the "hafting" end. "
http://skiles.net/1.jpg
http://skiles.net/2.jpg
http://skiles.net/3.jpg
http://skiles.net/4.jpg
http://skiles.net/5.jpg
http://skiles.net/6.jpg _________________ David Campbell
"The going's getting weird, so I'm turning pro." |
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frank harrist
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 107 Location: Northeast Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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That is a very odd artifact. How big is it? How much does it weigh? Does anyone have any idea as to what the hell it is? How it was hafted? I've never seen anything like it. Weapon? Tool? Ceremonial? WTF? It's cool, whatever it is. _________________ We have not inherited the earth from our fathers. We are borrowing it from our children. (Amish Farmer) |
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | David wrote:
that's where I would leave the comparison when communicating with the likes of Al Goodyear, if I anticipated a serious response |
Quote: | Charlie, it is your choice to express your many interesting opinions icon_wink.gif
Just keep in mind bro, that the science of archaeology can be particularly brutal. icon_cry.gif I'll shut on this one now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only a suggestion: Your posts might be easier to read if they were formatted to take up less space.
Best,
Jeff |
Hi Jeff.
Yeah, I understand what your trying to say. I've just never been much of a
politician. The thought of maintaining the status quo to be accepted into "the good ol' boy's club" pretty much turns my stomach.
How's the cave exploration going?
I'd love to see some more close ups of the effigies. The horses are way cool!! _________________ Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
http://forum.preclovis.com/
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Bob Skiles posted the following artifact for identification on the main TAS list; I thought of Charlie immediately when I saw it.
"The attached photos illustrate a groundstone item found on the surface within or near a prehistoric terrace site near the Russell Fork of the San Gabriel River in eastern Burnet County. Artifacts date the site to Middle (a Nolan/Travis or two) to Late (a fair amount of what you'd expect) Archaic with possibly a bit of Late Prehistoric (I've only seen a couple of photos). The material is a stream rolled cobble, that looks like chert, but the ground "bit" end has a visible crystalline structure. There appears to be wear extending past the bevel, but this may be differential weathering. It is not highly polished, but is very smooth. The ventral face is slightly "oranger" in appearance, especially near the "hafting" end. " |
Cool David.
It's hard to tell from the photo, but if you turn the first photo 90 degrees to the right, is there an indention where an eye would be placed in a bird effigy?
If so, the two bevels could be interpreted as the bird's beak. The potential
iron staining on the ventral surface is particularly interesting.
I'm up at the coffee shop right now. I've been promised by my new ISP that they will have me hooked up at home by Wednesday...
I've got the rough draft of the preliminary report on the Hatchett Site completed, and I'd like you guys to help me tear it to shreds before I send it out to any of the pros. I'll try to get it posted here by Wednesday.
Peace. _________________ Charlie Hatchett
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effigy
Joined: 06 May 2006 Posts: 25
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Charlie Hatchett wrote: |
How's the cave exploration going?
I'd love to see some more close ups of the effigies. The horses are way cool!! |
Charlie, I've had no choice but to step back from my archeo interests, after the April 13 Tornado visited my house.
The whole "tornado package" has been much more difficult than I ever thought...finding money, arguing with insurance, work work work, and a whole host of things one would never expect. Tomorrow, I'm meeting with a different insurance person and I'll be well prepared. The bottom line there will be they need to pull thier heads out immediately, and pay me all of what they owe, or I'll let the State Insurance Comission handle it.
I did make a couple visits to the site in early Spring, and as usual, documennted some good stuff. I havent even had time to visit the forum more than 1-2 a week lately. I am looking forward to some vacation time in October though. The weather is beautiful then. I'll be making it a point to do some nice, quite site visits. One thing I want to do there is build a "scaffold" out of local logs/trees in front of the cliff adjacent to the cave, so I can get an up-close look... |
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Charlie, I've had no choice but to step back from my archeo interests, after the April 13 Tornado visited my house.
The whole "tornado package" has been much more difficult than I ever thought...finding money, arguing with insurance, work work work, and a whole host of things one would never expect. Tomorrow, I'm meeting with a different insurance person and I'll be well prepared. The bottom line there will be they need to pull thier heads out immediately, and pay me all of what they owe, or I'll let the State Insurance Comission handle it.
I did make a couple visits to the site in early Spring, and as usual, documennted some good stuff. I havent even had time to visit the forum more than 1-2 a week lately. I am looking forward to some vacation time in October though. The weather is beautiful then. I'll be making it a point to do some nice, quite site visits. One thing I want to do there is build a "scaffold" out of local logs/trees in front of the cliff adjacent to the cave, so I can get an up-close look... |
Ouch...I had no idea. Sounds like you are going through hell. Sorry dude!
Hopefully things will get better soon. _________________ Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
http://forum.preclovis.com/
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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DavidCampbell Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2003 Posts: 436 Location: Occupied Republic of Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just from the haphazard flake pattern, or lack thereof, I'd lean toward geofact on this one, Charlie. It just looks too unweildy to be a tool, even for an extremely old one like Acheulian. The edge looks blunted rather than sharpened like even a unifacial tool. _________________ David Campbell
"The going's getting weird, so I'm turning pro." |
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 898 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Charlie, after viewing an artifact/geofact discussion that you started on another website - I would have to guess that these are geofacts.
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My opinion is that these are large pieces which were knocked off in the initial part of the knapping process and then discarded as other parts were used. The small chips on the edges are from being rolled downstream with other rocks. They aren't refined ebough for a human to have done them for a reason. Or.....they could just be totally geofacts. They don't look like tools to me. Only possible debitage.
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Quote: |
The small chips on the edges are from being rolled downstream with other rocks. They aren't refined ebough for a human to have done them for a reason.
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Quote: | But, then, why would they small "chips" only be on the side that's the narrowest? Why not all over the piece?
_________________
Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
"Preguntan la Autoridad"
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Quote: | Because that's the weakest edge? |
Quote: | What kind of stone is that, Charlie? |
Quote: | Not sure, Min. Doesn't look like chert, does it?
_________________
Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
"Preguntan la Autoridad" |
Quote: | Doesn't look like flint, either. |
I went back and checked. They're quartzite:
Quote: | A little research turn up the fact that the most common tool materials in Africa, during the Acheulean, were quartzite, glassy lava, chert and flint.
_________________
Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
"Preguntan la Autoridad" |
Quote: |
Pardon a dumb question - on rocks:
How easy/hard is it to tell if an interesting piece is a discard vs. a finished tool vs. nothing but a rock.
Don't give up on me Charlie, I'm getting a little better.
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Quote: |
Give up on you...??? Confused
Don't give up on me!! Shocked
We're on the very edge here, Bro.
My criteria with stone, is definitive evidence of knapping.
In this gravel alluvium, from where these pieces are unraveling, there's geofacts galore. The only sure way, is definitive evidence of knapping.
_________________
Charlie Hatchett
www.preclovis.com
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_________________ Charlie Hatchett
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