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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 898
Location: Austin, Texas
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: Possible PreClovis Iron Smelting |
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| Quote: | From: stephen.kissin@lakeheadu.ca
Date: 06/26/06 15:29:48
To: Charlie Hatchett
Subject: examination of the furnace materials
Charlie:
I had a look at the polished thin sections. There is not a lot of difference between the furnace wall sample and the rock from 20 feet away. Both are surprising opaque in transmitted light, and although it is not obvious in the hand specimens, this apparently due to finely dispersed carbon. These two specimens are really striking in that they are positively loaded with marine microfossils. I can get a picture for you if you would like.
The furnace wall sample is slightly bleached, suggesting a loss of carbon (through heating?). It also contains some very minor red iron oxyhydroxide FeO(OH). This also might be an effect of the heating.
Steve |
Furnace Wall Sample:
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%2049.jpg
PreClovis Iron Furnace Wall Sample Submitted for Analyses to Dr. Steve Kissin, Metallurgist, Dept of Geology, Lakehead University, Ontario, Canada
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%2071.jpg
PreClovis Iron Furnace Wall Sample Submitted for Analyses to Dr. Steve Kissin, Metallurgist, Dept of Geology, Lakehead University, Ontario, Canada
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%20106.jpg
Results of Furnace Wall Sample Analysis-PPL
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%20109.jpg
Results of Furnace Wall Sample Analysis-X-nicol
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%20107.jpg
Results of Control Sample Analysis- 20' from Furnace Structure-PPL
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%20108.jpg
Results of Control Sample Analysis- 20' from Furnace Structure-X-nicol
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Charlie Hatchett
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Location: Austin, Texas
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Charlie Hatchett
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 898
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Possible PreClovis Iron Smelting |
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From: Stephen Kissin
Date: 03/04/07 12:41:20
To: Charlie Hatchett
Subject: Re: First look at the bird
Charlie:
Well, to me it does not look to be a mold, but just a pouring. It is basically flat on one side. I doubt that there is anything but iron there, but it would be easy to check that out on the SEM. The carbon, if that is what it is, I would guess came from the cast iron, which typically has a few percent carbon. As the cast iron oxidized, the carbon would be liberated. The principle behind radiocarbon dating is that the carbon was originally organic, specifically that it was exchanging nitrogen with the atmosphere. The carbon in this case would have been dissolved in the iron, hence not organic.
Steve
On 3/3/07, Charlie Hatchett <charliehatchett> wrote:
Evening, Steve.
Thanks for taking a look. Yeah, the readings I got for iron, zinc and silver were only from a hobbyist metal detector. With its low melting point, good fluidity, castability, cast iron would make sense for a pouring. Does the piece appear, at least at first glance, to be a pouring? To my untrained eye, the piece appears to have been poured into a fossilized ammonite shell mold, with the "head" carved into the limestone adjacent to the fossil mold. What's your opinion?
I' d love to have some microphotographs to view, if you can find the time. As to the SEM analysis, from my viewpoint, the more hard data, the better. Do you think an SEM would be useful? Also, the carbon.I wonder if that could be dated? If coal was used as fuel, would the date of the carbon show up as infinite? And if wood was used, would the date show up as finite (assuming it's less than ca. 50k B.P.)?
The "bird":
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%2012.jpg
PreClovis Iron Artifact 1- Dorsal View- Lima-Igl
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%2011.jpg
PreClovis Iron Artifact 1- Lateral View- Lima-Igl
http://cayman.globat.com/~bandstexas.com/iron%20artifact%20139.jpg
PreClovis Iron Artifact 1- Ventral View- Lima-Igl
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Charlie Hatchett
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Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: Possible PreClovis Iron Smelting |
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From: Stephen A. Kissin, Ph.D.
Date: 01/11/06 10:21:15
To: Charlie Hatchett
Subject: Possible Prehistoric Furnace and Metal Working
Dear Mr. Hatchett
As far as the ideas about the site are concerned, it certainly looks as if pyrite was roasted there. However, to produce iron from pyrite (or any other oxidized form of iron), one would need a reducing agent, presumably charcoal. This would be rather emphemeral in an ancient site, so there may be no trace of it. The idea that there is a blow-hole as suggested in your photo is interesting, as that would be necessary in order to produce the temperature required to reduce the iron. Although the pictured seashell cannot be identified from the photo, if it is indeed a seashell, it, along with a lot more, could provide a fluxing agent for removal of impurities, chiefly silicon. It would not be a source of manganese. All this suggests that the site is plausibly an iron reduction factory of sorts. I caution you that it is by no means definite, as more investigation would certainly be required to confirm this.
The big question I have at the moment is the establishment of a preClovis age. How did you establish this? In this context, the site could be an early, but historic factory for the recovery of sulfur, which could be readily recovered by roasting of pyrite. This is a necessary component for production of black powder. Hence, firm establishment of the age is very important.
If you have detached a small bit of the metal or metal (the lead-like material), these can be readily identified as to both composition and texture with our facilities here. What would you like to do?
I will speak to my friend from San Antonio, an archeologist who is part of our geoarcheology program and a specialist on the Southwest.
Sincerely,
Stephen A. Kissin, Ph.D.
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Charlie Hatchett
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Charlie Hatchett
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: Possible PreClovis Iron Smelting |
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From: Dr. Steve Kissin
Date: 01/11/06 13:48:10
To: Charlie Hatchett
Subject: Possible Prehistoric Furnace and Metal Working
Dear Mr. Hatchett:
Very interesting photos of the artifacts, especially those you have identified as Clovis type. We have in our area a "paleo-Indian" culture that is 9000 years B.P., dated by radiocarbon dates on shorelines of former shorelines of ancestral Lake Superior. These artifacts are fairly well crafted, resembling much more recent material, but made of local cherts derived from the Gunflint Formation, rather than trade material seen in more recent materials.
The dating of your deposit is valid as far as it goes, but there is the question as to whether the artifact-containing alluvium actually did cover the furnace area after its function. There are sophisticated means of determining this, but they are not available from me. If there were preClovis iron production going on, this would topple all sorts of ideas and, in fact, would preceed iron production in Europe. I think at that point others would interested in applying sophisticated dating methods to the site.
But to the point, if you are agreeable to sending a specimen of the metals to me, I can see what they are quite readily. I need only very small samples, ca. 1 gram. If you wish, I have a loan agreement that I can get to you.
Stephen Kissin
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Charlie Hatchett
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Charlie Hatchett
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Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: Possible PreClovis Iron Smelting |
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From: stephen.kissin@lakeheadu.ca
Date: 02/09/06 10:16:09
To: Charlie Hatchett
Subject: Back to you
Hello Charlie:
Sorry for the slow response, but I have been a bit tied up. First, I have attached two tifs of the hard material (pyrite) and the soft material that you sent. The files are large because of the fine structure involved. The hard material shows up as pyrite in the photo. One can see the cube edges on the outer portion of the specimen. The composition was verified in the SEM.
The soft material shows light, translucent particles, which are the silicone material, in a lead matrix. The occasional dark grains are sand.
As for your finds, both really do look man-made. Have you been able to determine if the blowholes connect to the rectangular pits? The round particles are interesting. Do they appear to be lead or what?
My thought is that this may be a metallurgical site, but I have the feeling that it may be historic, perhaps a place where bullets were cast. If the round particles are lead, that would support the idea.
I will run the artifacts past my archeologist friend, although he has protested that he is not an expert on Texas archeology.
Steve Kissin
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Charlie Hatchett
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Charlie Hatchett
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Charlie Hatchett
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Charlie Hatchett
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